Saturday, June 28, 2014

Ridiculous Wiki argument

There is something wrong with this decision. A fact is a fact and does not need to be referenced. The reason as to why it has been questioned is to do with politics, but it is not easy to say how. Those making the mistake may not be the those wishing to cover up the fact.
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Hajnal Ban[edit]

Can some more editors please keep an eye on this page? An editor is repeatedly adding claims that Ban has ties to far-right organisations, cited to an Australian article that doesn't actually remotely support the things claimed. The Drover's Wife (talk) 09:45, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up. Will add Hajnal Ban to watchlist. --Pete (talk) 22:31, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
Just had a look. Who is the editor you say is repeatedly adding these claims? Are you talking about User:WWGB? If so, you are incorrect. The source indicates that the Australian Tea Party supports Black/Ban, but as you rightly point out she hasn't admitted it. --Pete (talk) 22:43, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
No, if you look at the edit history WWGB had an edit conflict trying to fix a grammatical error that led to the stuff being re-inserted. This has actually been sitting on the page since at least March 2012, and the editor involved appears to be User:Ddball, who has been editing the page ever since. The statement is very clear that she "openly acknowledges" being backed by them, which is not remotely supported by the source. They did back her, yes, but I'm far from convinced that is notable since she does not appear to have acknowledged them in any way. Frickeg (talk) 23:24, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
What Frickeg said. The editor is also making claims about Ban having ties to the Australian Defence League, which is a considerably nastier organisation than the "Australian TEA Party" and doesn't seem to be mentioned in the source at all. The Drover's Wife (talk) 00:13, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, that was my take. It doesn't seem to be an ongoing issue though? --Pete (talk) 03:04, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
The ADL and the Australian Tea Party are the same organisation. Under the leadership of David Goodridge the Australian Tea Party was created to tap into the US political funding cycle .. which is something he told me in a phone conversation while he was trying to recruit me. The issue is neither here nor there, Hajnal came out as the most senior member of that party having been elected. The ADL is a brother organisation to the ADL in the US which is from the EDL .. and BNP .. Those details are not in the article, but truths which Goodridge goes to great pains to obscure. The article should correctly position Hajnal's politics and connection to the far right party .. note, the EDL in UK style themselves occasionally as conservative too .. it doesn't make it true. ADL/Tea Party politics are reactionary anti immigration and opposing cultural pluralism while conservative politics is not. DDB (talk) 08:03, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
But, even if that were all true, none of it is supported by the source you were citing. For something as controversial as this, it is even more important to have accurate, reliable citation, especially on a BLP. Your own experience is all well and good, but not a reliable source, as I'm sure you're aware. If you can find a reliable source indicating all of that, then, maybe, if it can be established as notable, we could think about including it. Frickeg (talk) 08:12, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
The fact is fact and I am at arms length to the subject and the issue. I know neither Hajnal nor deal with the ADL/Australian Tea Party. The article was made with Hajnal's permission/cooperation. It was a puff piece at a time when the group were hoping to leverage support and the court case seems to be relevant only to her. My sole aim with the edits was to be encyclopaedic and accurate and precise. It is a wilful mislabel to cal Hajnal conservative .. she is not. Maybe Hajnal does not endorse the realities of the Australian Tea Party .. that is almost certainly true even if she were trying to adhere to their extremist dictates. I have no hidden agenda here and will happily ignore the page from now on. However, I respectfully point out it neither wrong, nor biased, to accurately portray the public position of a public figure. DDB(talk) 09:27, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
It is basic wikipolicy to cite a reliable source. If an editor uses their own personal knowledge, it is Original Research and may not be used. Especially not in a BLP. Anything unsourced is subject to immediate removal. --Pete (talk) 09:30, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Quite. Not to mention it's hardly a public position if there's no reliable source for it. Frickeg (talk) 09:36, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
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