Following a thread of a religious bigot - atheist

Do you support the Liverpool Residents Action Group and their fight against Liverpool City Council?
Supreme Court action against Liverpool City Council
Source: www.streetcorner.com.au
If you have ever been a victim of local council arrogance, this is for you! The Hoxton Park Residents Action Group Inc members are taking Liverpool City Council to the Supreme Court in an attempt to prove ...
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FD I live only a few minutes away by car, I don't see the big deal, hence no I don't support the resident action group. There going to get killed financially. In the end the council will win and the action group will be forced to pay liverpool council legal fees which trust me will be a lot.
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Aaron LeeYes I support them even though I don't live there. FD, you make a great point, but the George Hall action group, set up for pretty much the same reason, so far, has been successful in its cause.
I think in a multi-cultural, multi-creed nation, there is no place for religion-denominated schools. I went to Catholic school and was taught from a very young age that those who are not Catholics go to Hell. I was surrounded by Catholics. To not believe the Jesus Christ died on the Cross, to me, always seemed odd. The people who disbleieved, to me, seemed odd. Religious schools, in my view, are the opposite to being open and accepting.
In my view, if your faith is strong enough, then you should be able to indoctrinate your children without sending them to a school which essentially seeks to brainwash them.
All schools should teach (and give EQUAL airtime) to all reliigions, and it should be illegal for any teacher or school to claim that a non-believer gets punished in any way.
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FD I agree with you Aaron, I would never put my son in a religous school, including muslim, as they differ to my views.
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David Daniel Ball I think there is a need for schools that cater for Islamic peoples in an Australian context. My father was instrumental in having a few schools founded on Australian lines in the middle east and that was a worthwhile project too. Islamic schools working to Australian standards may contribute much for the harmonious future of all Australians. I see no harm in it and feel the targeted neighborhood an appropriate place for one.
I also believe in democracy and accept that others disagree with this pov
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TC I think schools like this help to stimulate racism. Never understood why you could have a school for only muslim's when a school barring muslim's would create all sort of uproar
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David Daniel Ball Christian (including Catholic) schools serve a very useful function without stimulating racism. As do Jewish schools. Or International schools.
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Aaron Lee David, care to share with us what that function is? Also, while "racism" technically isn't the issue (it's religion, not race) yes, depending on the teachings of the religion, it stimulates discrimination. Most of the mainstream religions teach that non-believers go to hell. This means from a very young age, children are taught in these school s that people who don't share their beliefs go to hell. Our lifetimes only last a few short years. Eternity (if it exists) lasts forever. Why wouldn't a kid who believes most people are dammned NOT think those people are worth less than he is?
Like I said though, I'd be interested in hearing what "useful function" they serve.
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David Daniel Ball Aaron, there are those who believe mentioning religion is the same as mentioning voodoo. Those people generally adhere to the belief that Religion is worthless and silly. However, I would point out that religious institutions underpin our society. The freedoms we enjoy, often hard fought for, we enjoy thanks to the work of religious institutions, among others. I will merely point out that faith is profound and effects the greatest among us in a positive way.
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TC I don't want to put down faith as a whole, but i really believe it has some serious drawbacks, my brother is born again christian and they go to a church where one of the attendees is gay and told everytime he goes that his sexual preference is the work of the devil. I really can't agree with any sort of comittee that would do that to somebody.
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David Daniel Ball I have Anglican sensibilities but I'm proud to attend a charismatic church (The Jesus Family Center in Cabramatta). Sexuality is not an issue of sermons, in general, and I would have to struggle to think if it ever was. I have had friends who were gay and their sexuality is not an issue for me. I think the sad experience of some gays is appalling, but I don't see any truth to the assertion. I suspect it would be worse at an Islamic function. But then Islamic society does not have the positive features that Christian religion does with schools running to Australian standards.
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Aaron Lee Daniel, I think you should be careful laying judgement on one religion against your own. It's quite hypocritcal.
Fact: all religions are based on some things that some men said and wrote. That you choose to believe one man or group of men (those who wrote the new Testament) over another group (those who wrote the Koran) doesn't make your religion superios to anybody else's.
driving factor Daniel, does your flavour of faith believe that a Muslim will go to the same place as you when you die? Does your flavour of faith believe that an athiest will go to the same place when you die? If the answer to either of those questions is "no", then there is no room for your flavour of faith in our schools.
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David Daniel Ball Aaron, my name is David.
You seem to have misunderstood what I wrote .. I'm not the judge in this matter, but I have a valid opinion that is not voided by my faith as you seem to assert. I am a public servant and an effective teacher and I note that many of my professional peers are also people of faith and have none of the difficulties you assert have to exist. Maybe you don't get it. I'm not perfect, but I am forgiven. The same may not be said for many better people.
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Aaron Lee Hi David, all opinions by definition are valid. However, can you please explain to me how...
"I suspect it would be worse at an Islamic function. But then Islamic society does not have the positive features that Christian religion does"...
is not an example of judging another religion against your own?... Which is all I accused you of.
Regarding the question you artfully avoided...will the Muslims or atheists go to the same place you will go to after death?. This is a "yes" or "no" question - care to answer it?
Finally, thanks for the demographic update re teachers/ faith. However, you've missed this point also. When I said there is no room for faith in our schools, it was in the context of this thread - faith-based schools. NOT in the context of whether or not teachers who practice a faith should be allowed to teach! I don't care what is practiced by teachers, I care what they teach our children!
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David Daniel Ball Considering the topic of debate, Aaron, I would think the statement clear. In Australia we have many Christian schools and very few Islamic schools. When an Islamic school is suggested, the suggestion is often spurned on the grounds that such schools are badly run in 3rd world nations which don't run schools to Australian standards. This deprives the Islamic community of training for their young in the art of leadership for their communities .. which Christians enjoy and have enjoyed since the Madras system of education was established (later adopted by the Catholic church) as a means of education. cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitorial_System
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David Daniel Ball I did not artfully avoid addressing the question of faith, you are not understanding my answer. It is irrelevant that someone is of a different faith to me when compared to the faithless. Perhaps you know the OT story of Jonah? Jonah wanted a city damned, but God wouldn't let him. I am not the judge. I could be wrong, but my convictions are based on simple proofs which guide me, and I am convicted I am right in embracing God as the father and Jesus as his son in accordance with the scriptures .. I prefer NIV Bible. My observation of the paucity of advantages for Islamic children is not a condemnation of Islam but an observation of modern social mores which deny opportunity to the children of faithful peoples.
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David Daniel Ball You should care who your teachers are and what they teach. Their rewards are substantially not monetary and their agenda stamps the agenda of your children. Many teachers adore the left, and preach the alleged virtues of socialist thinking and this creates sloppy thinking adopted by many leftist leaders. How many people might have survived to improve the world had Pol Pot, Mao or Stalin gone to better schools?
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Aaron Lee David if you had a solid arguement for anything, you'd stick to the debate and refrain from referencing bible stories or political history in a pathetic attempt to dazzle us all with your Wikipedia expertise! Wow.
Yes, I've gotten your point every time. I don't care what the bible has to say. You said in plain English
"I suspect it would be worse at an Islamic function. But then Islamic society does not have the positive features that Christian religion does"...
..and this was in answer to TC's issue of her gay brother being treated poorly by Christians. In no uncertain terms, were you judging Islam to be the bigger villian.
You also still haven't answered the question as to whether YOU believe non-believers go to the same place after death that you will go to. What part of "yes" or "no" do you not understand?
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Aaron Lee I think David that you sorely underestimate the readship of this thread. Believe it or not, it will take more than a teacher's vernacular and partiality to research (not to mention a teacher's TIME to research and narrow-mindedness!) to distract everyone from the point! A dictionary, thesaurus and encyclopedia might make you infallible in front of school children but in the real world, people will call you on your bullshit.
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David Daniel Ball Aaron, just try to read sequentially. Sometimes, you don't understand something, you might take notes .. make a list .. and try to work out what you don't understand. You aren't stupid, but you seem to be willing to be easily distracted. It is wrong to say that I made a passing comment on Islam being inferior to Christianity. What I said was that Christians have a natural advantage in Australia because of community expectations .. and this debate is proof of that. For some reason people seem to feel that an Islamic school is a bad idea. I believe it is a good idea and have written that. I have not cast aspersions on Islamic peoples.
You are persisting with some erronious argument about heaven and hell. As a Christian, I can tell you that you know far more about that than I. I know, and the bible spells it out clearly, that I am forgiven and will be with God when I die. Judgement is real and I won't have to face it. I have answered your question, but you don't seem able to understand.
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David Daniel Ball Your lack of understanding seems more willful than through dumbness. What I write is true and isn't bullshit. You are being intellectually lazy.
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Aaron Lee David, when (your idea of) sophisticated vocabulary and extensive referencing doesn't work, you resort to sarcasm and patronisation?
Yes, you did back the Islamic school. But you still haven't explained how your words "I suspect it would be worse at an Islamic function. But then Islamic society does not have the positive features that Christian religion does", DON'T indicate a judgement of Islam.
However, kudos to you, you have HALF answered my other question. So, you believe (because the bible tells you) that when you die, you will be with god. Now, if you'd care to answer the second half, would a Muslim person also be with god when they die? Would an atheist? Would a Hindu? REGARDLESS of whether or not they had been exposed to Christianity?
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David Daniel Ball I've answered the question Aaron, and explained the words. Read the answers. Islamic society in Australia suffers from not having enough schools. You merely misread what I wrote and put on your own interpretation in the hopes of calling me a bigot. You are wrong to do so and your clumsy attempt is shameful.